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Netstat -vat by Sean Michael Kerner (bio)

A command line view of IT



GNOME should seperate from the GNU Project

gnome.jpg
From the 'Land Before Time' files:

Did you know that the GNOME project was still officially part of the GNU Project (led by the founder of Free Software Richard Stallman)?

It is - but it might not be this time next year and I personally think that would be a good thing.

The GNU Project dates all the way back to 1983 and throughout its history has been an important place for all Free Software projects, like GNOME. Over the last few days, there was a bit of a flame-war going on various GNOME-related mailing lists about an article appearing on Planet GNOME - which is a GNOME news aggregator.

Stallman took issue with an article posted by GNOME co-founder Miguel de Icaza and argued that non-Free Software should not be promoted on the Planet GNOME site. (Stallman and De Icaza are not exactly on friendly terms, lately mostly related to Stallman's opposition to the Mono Project, led by De Icaza).

It's an argument that many in the broader GNOME community don't agree with and could potentially lead to GNOME leaving the GNU Project.
"Planet GNOME is about people and we display everyone's full blog feed as it represents them," GNOME Foundation Executive Director Stormy Peters wrote "There are people that work on proprietary software as well as GNOME and that's who they are. I don't think we should reject people because they don't agree with us 100 percent of the time."

Stallman responded with the following:
"GNOME is part of the GNU Project, and it ought to support the free software movement," Stallman wrote. "The most minimal support for the free software movement is to refrain from going directly against it; that is, to avoid presenting proprietary software as legitimate."
The call to actually consider leaving the GNU Project came from GNOME contributor Philip Van Hoof, but it does raise a larger question.

Is the GNU Project still relevant to GNOME?

Personally I don't think so anymore. While GNU was the birthplace of GNOME, it no longer requires GNU for sustenance and has its own thriving community, contributors and sources of income. What benefit does it actually derive?

Yes, with little doubt, I think that the moment that GNOME separates, GNU will fork GNOME and create their own Free Software version of GNOME. 

The issue with GNU has always been its religious stance on Free vs Open. That is Free Software is not always the same as Open Source software in their view as defined by the software freedoms (or lack there off) that a particular license enables or disable. I'm not so sure that the Free vs Open argument matters to as many GNOME users as it once did.

I don't think that GNOME will magically seperate from GNU today, but the writing is on the wall, isn't it?

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6 Comments

Carlos said:

I think Stallman is anachronic and obsolete. Gnome should sepArate from the GNU, definitely.

Are you asking if Freedom is important any more. People often forget the history. It took many years for us to achieve a complete free operating system. If we don't value the freedom, we will lose it once again. Gnome community itself is against Mono. It is funded by MS through Novell. Why don't you people get it.

Idiots said:

I love the fact that people honestly think Mono has anything funding wise to do with Microsoft. The Novell-Microsoft deal was focused on interoperabillity and patent protection, not Mono.

Idiots stop spreading FUD.

Also its idiots like Richard Stallman that make me embarrassed to use Linux and related stuff like GNOME.

john said:

Well, most people in Gnome don't wont it to be apart from Gnu; the few people that desire the separation are working by astroturfing and waiting that someone takes the lead, or that somehow the mass of Gnome developers go that way.
Some people in Gnome are very agressive and offensive. personally attacking RMS; just think if it was the other way around:Stallman labeling a Gnome guy a fascistic extremist. http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/2009/12/13/to-gnu-or-not-to-gnu/ [+]
Just look at Philip Van Hoof proposing a split from Gnu, than "Lefty" jumping to second that vote http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2009-December/msg00056.html
Than Van Hoof saying he will support the proposal if some hyphotetical Gnome Foundationer comes forward http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2009-December/msg00061.html
And finally Stormy Peters comes up with this:
"I am *not* saying we should do this."
And points to the Gone Foundation membership list, and proposes a wiki page about the subject. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2009-December/msg00064.html
This three people want it badly, they just don't have the neither the guts nor the support.

user 757 said:

> Also its idiots like Richard Stallman that make
> me embarrassed to use Linux and related stuff
> like GNOME.

And it is the idiot poster that shows how incredibly stupid users such as yourself really are. Linus can be credited for starting and shepherding the development of the Linux kernel. The kernel. And he deserves massive credit for licensing the work under Richard Stallman's GPL license. Today, Linus deserves credit for keeping Linux under the GPL license (though it should be moved to GPL 3), for maintaining strict discipline over it's development, for choosing excellent maintainers for kernel versions and development versions he isn't responsible for the relevant periods of time he chooses, and more. But for the uninformed such as yourself, Richard Stallman deserves a lot of the credit for the GNU utilities and non-kernel portions of "Linux" that he developed and/or co-developed over the last couple of decades. A day doesn't go by that I don't use some of those utilities and other Stallman created applications that allow me to efficiently and successfully run "GNU/Linux" on my laptops, desktops and servers. This is without a doubt true for anyone running GNU/Linux on servers in a production environment, and if not immediately, at some near future time, to rely on those utilities while using the desktop version of GNU/Linux as well.

Richard Stallman may "embarrass" you every time you use "Linux" or Gnome, but without Richard Stallman, it is highly unlikely that GNU/Linux would have developed into the operating system it is today, and more likely that you, I, and others would probably be using FreeBSD or some variant of that operating system. And without the GPL, it is highly unlikely that FreeBSD or some BSD variant would have become the juggernaut that GNU/Linux is today. It's the GPL that interested developers in contributing code that they knew wouldn't be locked up by non-free companies like Apple, instead of the guarantee of code being contributed back once modified and distributed, that the GPL requires, and BSD's license does not.

If Richard Stallman embarrasses you every time you use "Linux" and/or Gnome, then that exposes you as to how clueless you really are about the history of GNU/Linux development, and the debt of gratitude owed to Richard Stallman by every user who benefits from the use of (or even the threat of the use of) GNU/Linux. Thank you, Richard Stallman.

Richard said:

Its not so much GNOME needs to seperate from GNU but that either GNU needs to seperate from Stallman (and yes I am aware of the history and his contributions) - these days Stallman has stopped sounding rational and is doing a good job of sounding just as much of an extremist as any religious extremist: In short there is one view of the world that is correct. It is my view. You don't agree you will burn in the fires of hell.

The only place for extremists of his ilk and the religious kind is in a nice padded, soundproofed cell.

Take "to avoid presenting proprietary software as legitimate." - that is not a valid view of the world if you allow for practices other than your own - and does he view licences like BSD, MIT etc as proprietary, secondly if I write something why should I not profit - I'm not a systems / software engineer for chartiable reasons but to earn a living.

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